Curse

Age · Jun 02, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I think it is high time that Monks get their very own energy mangement skill instead of relying on their secoundary.This would be for both part of the game pvp and pve and no not like the blessed signet as that is for maintain enchantments and peace and harmony doesn't cut it.I am not sure what to call it or it how much energy you would get out of it.This also includes the enrgy cost to use it casting time and recharge rate.

Beat_Go_Stick · Jun 02, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Divine Spirit is a good one.....but I think you mean more than that.

What would you suggest?

Age · Jun 02, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

What I mean by is a skill non elite say that gives you 20 energy at a cost of 5 cast time 2 sec and recharge is 30.This skill when activated will give you 20 energy attribute devine favour.

Lurid · Jun 02, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Well, I doubt that if we got one it wouldn't be Elite. As most of the other energy management skills that are along the lines of what you mean are elite. That would be alittle overpowered anyway, IMO.

I don't really see the fuss though, as i'm fine with my E-Drain, MoR, OoB, etc....

EDIT - Typo

NatalieD · Jun 02, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Seeing some monk secondaries other than mesmer would be nice for a change...

Lurid · Jun 02, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

For PvE Necro is a very viable secondary, especially with OoB.

twicky_kid · Jun 02, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Boon sig

End of story. Will net you as much energy as anything else (and then some) in the right circumstances and is tied to divine favor.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 03, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

I find this rather shortsighted. Monks have the primary attribute which allows them to add extra healing to nearly any monk skill which targets an allie. This is expecially effective with skills which have low costs, because no matter how little the monk spends on a spell, divine favor will add another 30 or 40 healing to it.

So in actuality, monks ability is to expound on low cost spells with added healing rather than gaining massive energy to cast expensive skills. In many cases, Divine Favor can count for double effectiveness, or healing on top of protection magic, it is a rather peerless combination. Furthermore, because this expounds the use of the spells they already use, they can put out more healing faster than any other class, and energy regeneration buffs offered to them are twice as valuable, needless to say, the monk is a batteries primary concern.

On the flip side, Elementist or Ranger can compensate in energy or energy management, but their heals are nearly half as effective, and even though they may cast twice as much, it takes twice as long to execute those heals, making for slower healing, and much less effectiveness with protection skills. And need I mention, they need to second monk to use heals, either that or ritualist, but you think monk should have another energy management skill in his own skill pool without relying on a sub?

Add that to the use of Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit and/or blessed signet with any maintainable enchantments, and you pretty much have a dead subject, there is no need for another energy managment skill for monk. It would be unbalanced if you did give them one, they are already the most versatile, neccessary, and useful class in the game, why don't you give them everything else?, because it's broken.

Monk should really be red flaged for nerfing, it is bad enough that they are the undisputed healing class, they shouldn't even be able to compete in damage and versatility.

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Monk should really be red flaged for nerfing, it is bad enough that they are the undisputed healing class, they shouldn't even be able to compete in damage and versatility.

Competing in damage? The only smite monk that isn't a complete joke is a 55 monk and they have no business in any group or pvp build.
Bring back the ele smiters and we'll talk.

BrotherGilburt · Jun 03, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

just use offering of blood like Lurid siad, or Echo divine spirit. There plenty of skills to choose from to get energy as a monk. I think your skill idea would have to be an elite.

Brother Gilburt

NatalieD · Jun 03, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

For PvE Necro is a very viable secondary, especially with OoB.

Well, yeah. I meant in PVP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Boon sig

End of story. Will net you as much energy as anything else (and then some) in the right circumstances and is tied to divine favor.

The "right circumstances" are extremely impractical. Boon Signet is not a useful answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

a
Add that to the use of Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit and/or blessed signet with any maintainable enchantments, and you pretty much have a dead subject, there is no need for another energy managment skill for monk. It would be unbalanced if you did give them one, they are already the most versatile, neccessary, and useful class in the game, why don't you give them everything else?, because it's broken.

I love how you dismiss the entire idea of an energy management monk skill as unbalanced without any information at all as to what form it might take, how much energy it might supply, what drawbacks it might have, and so on. That's some quality analysis there.

NatalieD · Jun 03, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherGilburt

just use offering of blood like Lurid siad, or Echo divine spirit. There plenty of skills to choose from to get energy as a monk. I think your skill idea would have to be an elite.

OoB and Divine Spirit aren't really practical in PVP, though. Almost every monk in PVP is mo/me because there aren't really any other viable options.

Being elite is no problem. The idea is to have an alternative to Mantra of Recall/Energy Drain, after all.

Maria The Princess · Jun 03, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

are u talking about essence bond? cuz once you cast it on the warior all your energy problem is gone....

we had a whiny bonder in SF.... we restarted, he casted essence bond on the tank, and the necro didnt even need to give him blood ritual. its a good skill if your warior is getting hit...lol cast it on the assassins

twicky_kid · Jun 03, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

The "right circumstances" are extremely impractical. Boon Signet is not a useful answer.

LOL, its not impractical is acually very easy. Its just harder to use than your set and forget MoR. I've used it while I had it. It was very easy to get the energy. I don't know why it hasn't popped up in the new smite builds but hopefully some one will catch on

The only downside is the how often you have to use it. Moving is a big part of being a monk.

Zui · Jun 03, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

There's always Peace and Harmony, Boon Signet, or Divine Spirit.

Too bad they're subpar and don't warrent a slot on your bar for PvP. They're even fairly bad for PvE. Glyph of Renewal+Divine Spirit is nice in PvE and RA... But that's an elementalist secondary+an elite, and only the stupidity and disorganization of RA and that of the PvE AI will let you get away with it.

OoB is still viable, just not unless you have a very specific team and are running it to combat a very specific set of conditions. Making this only truely viable in tournament play, where you know the other team and the map in advance.

You're left with mesmer. Or you could run a monk with auspicios parry+bonettis, or essence bond, or balthazars spirit... Oh wait, those are pretty bad too, nevermind. Mesmer it is.

shardfenix · Jun 03, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

There is a reason why monks dont have much primary energy management:

because they have loads and loads of health management.

Nadine · Jun 03, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Monk doesnt have energy managements... hmm sounds pretty weak if u cant find them.

Every example in 90s

PnH, energy gained: (90s/3s)x1energy=30energy(-5 to cast it)
Boon Signet: 90/(6+1)x(lets say 4 is average)=51 energy (-time to cast signet)
Air Of Enchanting: To single target u can cast as many enchants as u ever will in 8s, for enery -5 cost, (rof, guardian and air, every of them with cost 0)
Healing Light: Heals very much, low recharge and cost of 2 energy....
Signet Of Devotion: heals for ~100hp without energy cost.

PnH maybe as ONLY energy management, u just need to use ur spells very carefully. Boon Signet is good but little slow to build up energy. Air Of Enchanting is perfect for smiter, maybe for active prot also. Healing light is really good secondary energy management, just combo with channeling...

Kakumei · Jun 03, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

What do you have against MoR/IHex/DrainEnchant/Edrain?

If you MUST stay inside the Monk profession, Blessed Light packs a lot of punch for a single spell--it's just trying to get the full worth out of it that's the problem.

guppy · Jun 03, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I was really dissapointed when I first started the game and tried playing a monk in pvp to realize mesmer secondary was the only real option availible. What bugged me was that monks (asside from bonding really) had no energy management (which is so crucial to most characters) and mesmers had such great energy return, it is as if monk was designed only to work with a mesmer and nothing else.

Please Anet, you want variety in the game, let monks have some of it tooo

They are so bound to the mesmer secondary. Please change it so monks have a few more options....

Just out of curiousity, has Anet ever added a new skill (not counting the addition of a new chapter)?

If that is the case, then either they change a skill drastically or they wait for Ch. 3 to come out before they add an energy management skill (thats viable in comparison to mesmers insane energy return). Then it wouldn't be fair for those who have the original or Ch.2 as they would be binded to the mesmer secondary and have no energy return spell. So maybe Anet can't help monks out

and they are stuck to being the most predictable classes in what they bring in pvp?

NatalieD · Jun 03, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

What do you have against MoR/IHex/DrainEnchant/Edrain?

Nothing at all. We'd just like to see more options. Variety is a neat thing.

Quote:

If you MUST stay inside the Monk profession, Blessed Light packs a lot of punch for a single spell--it's just trying to get the full worth out of it that's the problem.

And quite a problem it is, too. Kind of like how Boon Signet can give better energy than any mesmer skill - if you're willing to stop kiting every five seconds to use it. These aren't just drawbacks, they're crippling problems that make the spells much weaker than the mesmer alternatives.

Blessed Light, even if it did work well, would be kind of like another Word of Healing. WoH tries to do with energy efficiency what mesmer elites do with energy gain. The problem is even with WoH's efficiency, monks usually want more energy, and once your elite is used up the only skills that can get you more are in Inspiration, so it's back to the mesmer secondary anyway. (Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit don't count, since I'm talking about PVP here.)